Nothing matters (now), so everything matters (later)

by Jack Lesgrin

“Never in the field human commentary was so much outrage expressed, by so many, with so few effects.”

Across much of the political spectrum, we are living through an age of outrage, especially regarding the reckless ineptitude of this government. Many of us are afflicted by ‘outragitis’ – inflammation of their indignation. I was once a sufferer, but despite being a devout optimist, I came to realise midway through the lockdown that both the outrage and any resulting action, don’t matter an iota.

If directed at effecting immediate positive change or exacting a political price now, they are of no consequence and do the opposite to what was intended. Because they can have no effect, they let the government off the hook by absorbing the well-meaning energy of its critics, leaving them less time to take steps that will matter later.

In any self-respecting democracy, the view that governments must be held to account for incompetence is honourable but sadly misguided. Currently, the sentiment is amplified due to the after-effects of the last parliament, when Theresa May and later Boris Johnson governed with a wafer thin parliamentary majority, which offered a glimmer of hope to their opponents that Brexit could be blocked. But everything changed when Johnson won that 80-seat majority

We needn’t rehearse the details of all the episodes of incompetence since December, for even the debacle over exam results pales into insignificance next to the government’s response to Covid 19.

As well as exposing cruelly all the weaknesses of society and state that were held together by a shoestring pre-Covid, this government’s response to the pandemic is a tragic case study of the most fundamental, yet often overlooked British flaw of them all: that once a government has won substantial majority, there is almost no way that it can be held to account until the next general election. Neither robust criticism nor Royal Commission will result in the government paying any price; they’re untouchable.

Many would disagree, claiming that we have numerous checks and balances. Perhaps we all share the moth-eaten textbook view of the disinfecting power of ‘the British way’ – scrutiny by the ‘mother of parliaments’, strategy from the Rolls Royce civil service, inscrutability and fairness from the legal system, investigative nous from the free press, campaigning by interest groups, civic activism from civil society, and the sheer common sense of the population. Yet this has been shown by the Coronavirus to be a misguided paean to an apocryphal lost age of decency.

As a thought experiment, imagine that next week the government’s Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Adviser, standing either side of the Prime Minister at a Downing Street news conference, say: “We presented two alternatives to the Prime Minister: option A was opening the economy more with a 90% likelihood of causing 200,000 deaths; and option B, a more cautious approach that fully contained the virus but compounded economic problems. We recommended option B. The Prime Minister chose option A. We therefore resign because we think this is a dangerous and wrong decision.” Scenario A then comes to pass. 200,000 deaths occur, this time shown by the two advisers’ prior statement to be wholly preventable and directly caused by governmental edict. Most lay people, commentators and politicians would think that there would be consequences.

But no criminal act would have been committed, and even if by some fluke a minister were to be prosecuted, this would not require the Queen to cease regarding Mr Johnson as her chief adviser and Prime Minister. Imagine further a Royal Commission into the government’s Covid 19 issuing a damning indictment of their performance. Ministers’ talking points would read: “We fully respect the Commission’s team, but respectfully disagree with its findings.” Royal Commissions have no power to remove a government or even a minister from office, so that would be that.

But while this truism of our, sometimes ridiculous, political system may be initially depressing, we should not draw a pessimistic or cynical conclusion, rather come to understand that precisely because nothing matters now, everything matters down the track, and we should plan action in two connected areas.

First, we should resolve that the only way to hold this or any government to account is by defeating them at a general election. Of course highlighting governmental error can help achieve this aim, but the cumulative energy being generated and vented into the echo chamber ether must be redirected towards the government’s defeat. To misquote JFK: “Ask not what Twitter can do to advance your cause (nothing), ask what you can do for your local Labour Party (other parties are available!) to defeat Tories in four and a half years”. Labour must focus on doing what is necessary to win the election, not to win internecine arguments.

Second, the Labour Party, as the government-in-waiting, must initiate urgently a programme of engagement with its members, opposition parties and most importantly with wider society, to fashion a New Deal for our Democracy that would, among other things, cure the malaise that makes it hard to hold governments to account.

Perhaps this could include multi-member proportional representation to minimise the ‘winner takes all’ nature of our system and encourage cooperation. Select committees could be given sharper teeth, such as the power to force ministers to delay or postpone all but emergency decisions. A new system could see opposition parties submitting formal ‘minority report’ views on every major governmental action, with the government required to answer, thereby better scrutinising their actions while forcing the opposition to answer the question: “if you’re so clever or it’s so easy, what would you do differently?”

It is an outrage that it’s so difficult to hold a government in a first-past-the-post system to account, as our friends across the Atlantic know only too well. So, lay down your smartphones, switch off the podcasts in which the ‘usual suspect’ commentators debate the crisis du jour, for none of it matters. If we cure ourselves of outragitis, then our outrage can be channelled into optimistic outcomes that change our political system for the better leading to more effective governance.

Jack Lesgrin is a Labour party activist


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28 Responses to “Nothing matters (now), so everything matters (later)”

  1. John P reid says:

    For labour to win a election, it actually wants to win and that means accepting it owes a lot of working class out of the cites a hell of a lot of apologies and grovel to say we wished we’d listened

    Under John smith I felt we weren’t gonna win in 97 if he’d lived, as if we couldn’t win in 92 we never could even with black Wednesday,and had to wait the 5 years but as there was another election after the 2015 defeat it was easy for labour to say we won in 2017 and 2019 as the way to feel good the tories didn’t have a overall majority or we won the argument
    People like their tribe clique club that’s why they were embarrassed about a working class branch merging when the labour policy was to scrap branches go for Constituency based stuff
    Cliques like the blue labour one or the Fabians that don’t affiliate or have members who are labour members
    Corbyn staying neutral was silly as its still not accepting that the first referendum result hadn’t been implemented The corbynites like looking at a god thought this a good idea ignoring it was ignoring democracy
    (the second referendum idea we wouldn’t lose the north was based on idiocy -we want something to be true so we decided it was true) NB but it wasn’t)
    The party hasn’t just been anti working class it went back to the union bosses not caring about members interests in the 79’s just about boasting they felt they were the person who ran the country and now snobs are saying blue labour is racist
    And the anti working class attitude that went along with the Mandleson idea of getting middle class voters by being anti the police it lost us millions of votes in 87 and 92, it cost us victory for 10 more years, we’ve treated those who don’t have so called white privileged as a charity case yet all I hear form Minorites is “ I’m not going to be someone’s victim “
    Labour hold working class in contempt and just calling racism thinking it will win Middle class and minority votes and wont Drive away yet with others minorities years ago they were told to revise their views yet new migrants don’t have to integrate and it is Racist and so wrong as a insult to those who did integrate
    we’ve got to talk to working class people and ignoring prejudice by minorities causes more resentment and when most working class people aren’t racist it causes anger and causes a problem where we have to live with those people
    We have to apologise to Women as a speech at the women’s meeting saying men are women and expelling those who disagreed was vile
    We just ended up calling brexiters facsits because some of them knew a few dodgy people abroad (like Russia)
    By that view, If Jeremy corbyn calls hezbollah friends and hezbollah are fascists therefore Corbyn is a fascist if the Labour Party call the brexit party fascists
    The snobbery too the working-class-, by Metropolitan liberal elite at times saw them thinking if they posted on line “I hate Brexit “ to swing voters they wouldn’t dare vote Tory as they’d be blue posh conspirators
    have you seen the opinion polls, the tories are still far ahead
    But it’ll take another defeat to shock the party to realise we have to change fundamentally to come close
    and we ingored anti-Semitism by many including Muslims the cover-up grooming gangs which was anti white racism as Naz shah said white raped girl should keep their mouth shut for the sake of diversities
    the vote rigging on councils 20 years ago show how unchecked groups the police don’t interreact with get away with it
    unregistered for people Run riot and it lead to ruin by ignoring anti white racism – and we’ve ignored Trans that have seen rapists in safe spaces
    labour wanted the anti Semitism racism covered or wanted it ignored and up also he wanted the acquittal to not reopen the grooming gang investigations for it to just shut up
    Like when Doreen Lawrence falsely said the fire fighters at Grenfell didn’t put them out as they’re racist

  2. Alf says:

    I’ll take no lectures on democracy from the Tory-lite wing of our party.

  3. Tafia says:

    the Labour Party, as the government-in-waiting, must initiate urgently a programme of engagement with its members, opposition parties and most importantly with wider society

    Opposition Parties.
    There are only two of any consequence in Parliament – the SNP and the Lib Dems. The SNP’s position is crystal clear – no electoral deals unless you devolve the Section Order (the ability to hold an IndyRef whenever they want as often as they want) within the first year of Parliament, and once they call IndyRef2, Westminster politicians are to stay out of it. Can Labour agree to that? No. Labour’s ‘policy’ is to offer them a Federation type arrangement. The SNP openly find that highly insulting. They are a party committed to independence in full and they are not interested in anything short of that anymore. They despise and do not trust Westminster be it red or blue.
    The Lib Dems. If Labour do well it will be at the expense of the Lib Dems. Likewise for them to do well it is invariably at the expense of Labour. The Lib Dems rightly view Labour as a bigger threat to them electorally than the Tories. Should Labour rely ion the LibDems it will be on their terms – no Confidence & Supply nonsense, it will be a full Coalition, with them occupying every other Cabinet position in order of seniority. In addition, they will want guarentees about re-joining the EU. Labour will not win if the north and midlands think there is even the slightest chance they will be dragged back into the garbage of the EU – not even the Customs Union or the Single Market.

    If Labour wish to win, they are going to have to do it on their own. And that means taking on tand beating the SNP in Scotland while at the same time taking on and beating the Tories in England. Fail on either and you lose. And it is that simple.

    Wider Society
    Outside of metropolitan areas, the very voters Labour needs to win over are the blue collar suburban working class – the ones it lost in the first place. They are anti-EU, pro-Royal, pro-nuclear weapons, strong on defence, pro-armed forces, anti-asylum seekers, anti-drugs, anti-benefit scroungers, big believers in hard law and order and big jail sentences. They are also anti-BLM and regard this kneeling nonsense as the world of dorks, and they are decidedly unimpressed by gender garbage and other middle class clap-trap. And they also think any politician that tries to tell them they are wrong is a threat and a danger. They are not going to move position – why should they. If Labour wants their vote it will have to move to them. If it won’t, it will lose.

    Blair knew how to play the blue collar vote. Starmer is no Blair – he’s not even good enough to be in his shadow. As a senior Liverpool Labour Councillor said of Starmer on her facebook page last week – he’s a brylcreemed shithouse.

    (PS Labour now has similar problems in Wales. Among younger voters Plaid is starting to make inroads and Plaid, the Lib Dems and Labour in Wales do well at each others expense because they are all competing for the same pool of voters and all regard each other as the bigger threat than the tories. The tories picked up seats in Wales in GE19 helped by Labour, LibDems and Plaid splitting the vote – Ynys Mon being a stunning example)

  4. Anne says:

    Do agree that proportional representation would be a fairer system but this government would never agree to this implementation- the proposed boundary changes have been abandoned. Scotland is lost – if there was a referendum their tomorrow independence would win comfortably.
    I do feel, as an opposition, Labour has to keep calling out this government’s many inadequacies, but yes we have to build a case for competence, especially on the economy. This will come.
    Many in his own party now see Johnson as a liability- he just never seems to learn from his mistakes- he just keep adding too them. His latest stunt to Scotland was ridiculous. He has put his cronies in post before competence. Now, what is that saying ‘birds of a feather ..’

  5. John P Reid says:

    8 & A half months after labours fourth defeat in the Thatcher/ Major tears
    Post black Wednesday labour was 4% ahead in the polls
    Or 10 years 5 months during that period ( same time in pose as now in September 1989 labour was 15% ahead in the polls)

    The Tories are currently 3% ahead in the polls
    During those times labour swapped leader to be 13% ahead in the polls in 1997
    Of the Tories ousted Mrs thatcher

    To win again after 13 years in power

  6. Tafia says:

    This is why you keep falling on your arses outside of metropolitan areas. You are so far out of step with what should be your core vote out in the suburbs that its pitiful. Chuck the farcical BLM nonsense in and the gender garbage and it’s like watching a dystopian C4 comedy.

    Blue collar voters are not going to vote for you while you keep coming out with rubbish like this.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/aug/25/labour-calls-for-halt-of-bill-shielding-uk-soldiers-from-prosecution

  7. Carol says:

    I think politics today is about values and not primarily about economics and class. Labour is perceived as woke and more interested in transgender issues than whether working people can find a job or afford their rent. I was not put off Jeremy Corbyn because he wished to do some re-nationalising (I think water and railways should be re-nationalised) but his apparent indifference to grooming gangs chilled me. When Labour went down the identity politics route it made a historic mistake in my opinion. I can’t see where the road back will be.

  8. Tafia says:

    I was just wondering what people on here think of Neil Coyle, Labour MP for Bermondsey, who on social media in an exchange about Last Night Of The Proms, described Brexit voters as “Absolute shitbag racist wankers”. He has since refused to apologise for or withdraw the remark.

    Now hands up all of you that think Labourcan regain the 50-odd Leave voting seats that it lost with that sort of attitude. And he’s one of Labour’s senior back-benchers.

    He’s actually part of the reason you lost and why you’ll lose again.

    https://labourheartlands.com/labour-mp-shows-why-labour-will-never-be-a-credible-party-again-labour-mp-brands-brexiteers-absolute-shtbag-racist-wnkers-during-rule-britannia-row/

  9. A.J. says:

    There may not be a way back – or much of a way forward, either, unless the voters get truly pig-sick of the so-called ‘Conservative Party’. But will another Blair be waiting to pounce, as in the dark days after 1992? Will Labour manage to conjure up another snake-oil salesman of such flair as Mr. Blair (who even outdid Mr. Wilson)? I wouldn’t care to put money on it.

  10. anon says:

    A short play: The Relationship

    Partner A: What’s the problem; we’ve always got on OK before.

    Partner B: You just won’t see the problems building up around us. The roof is leaking, we’ve run out of food, we can’t get a doctor or dentist, our kids have nowhere to play – the garden’s been taken over, and little Suzy won’t leave my side because your ‘guests’ are continually mauling her about. If I’m not being threatened for wearing inappropriate clothing, I’m being told that Suzy may wish to change her gender.
    You’ve just become weird.

    Partner A: Oh, come on – these people have had a pretty hard time: surely you don’t think that we have created this comfortable home for just us to live in. Suzy is going to have to be reminded of her privilege; and you are just a reactionary – you need to adjust your attitude and not offend our new friends.

    Partner B: So, this chaos is just going to continue and get worse?

    Partner A: I’m afraid so; you’re just going to have to lump it.

    Partner B: I don’t think so. Come on, Suzy, we’re off.

  11. Tafia says:

    Polling for August

    Ipsos/MORI, 30 Jul-04 Aug
    Con: 45%
    Lab: 36%
    LDem: 9%
    Grn: 4%
    Oth/DK/WNV:6%

    YouGov, 04-05 Aug
    Con: 42%
    Lab: 36%
    LDem: 9%
    Grn: 4%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 9%

    YouGov, 11-12 Aug
    Con: 44%
    Lab: 35%
    LDem: 5%
    Grn: 5%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 11%

    Redfield & Wilton, 12 Aug
    Con: 43%
    Lab: 36%
    LDem: 9%
    Grn: 4%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 8%

    Opinium, 13-14 Aug
    Con: 42%
    Lab: 39%
    LDem: 5%
    Grn: 3%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 11%

    SavantaComres, 14-16 Aug
    Con: 42%
    Lab: 37%
    LDem: 7%
    Grn: 4%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 10%

    YouGov, 18-19 Aug
    Con: 40%
    Lab: 38%
    LDem: 6%
    Grn: 6%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 10%

    Redfield & Wilton, 19 Aug
    Con: 44%
    Lab: 37%
    LDem: 7%
    Grn: 4%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 8%

    Survation, 21 Aug
    Con: 41%
    Lab: 37%
    LDem: 9%
    Grn: 5%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 9%

    Redfield & Wilton, 24 Aug
    Con: 42%
    Lab: 37%
    LDem: 9%
    Grn: 5%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 7%

    YouGov, 24-25 Aug
    Con: 43%
    Lab: 36%
    LDem: 6%
    Grn: 4%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 11%

    LONDON ONLY
    Redfield & Wilton, 05-07 Aug, London Only
    Lab: 48%
    Con: 29%
    LDem: 14%
    Grn: 7%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 2%

    SCOTLAND ONLY
    YouGov, 06-10 Aug, Scotland Only
    IndyRef2
    Yes: 53%, No: 47%
    Westminster
    SNP: 54%, SCon: 20%, SLab: 16%, SLDem: 5%, Oth: 4%
    Holyrood Const/List
    SNP: 57/47%, SCon: 20/21%, SLab: 14/14%, SLDem: 6/6%, SGrn: 1/6%, Oth:1/6%
    (**16/17 year olds can now vote in Holyrood elections and the sample is adjusted to contain a representative sample of those ages for the Holyrood figures)

  12. JoHn P reid says:

    The clique of wanting to sit around with people who one shares the same values as to tell each other how they’re the good people in society as how right on they are, and that if anyone else differs for their view they must be a bad person and must be eradicated for even being part of that clique, as even if the rest of the public doesn’t share their values, then they’re either bad people IE tories ,or were thick to have voted for the tories and if we keep telling them they’re thick they’ll be won around,(as they were mistaken in not remembering how good the winter of discontent was)
    or it doesn’t matter (as in young labours case as if we cant’ win the public around we’ll have the revolution and that way the lefty cliques views can be pushed on the people,
    Now when the labour party scrapped branches especially in areas where the branch was defined by it’s financial views affecting its’ social views, if a Middle class branch dominated a Area and then it had to have its working class branch come along and the working class branch was patriotic and EU sceptic and the middle class branch liberal remain and pro the Eu then the middle class branch would look embarrassed to see the working class branch as people who didn’t share their views and didn’t have a place in the party
    Similar if a boundary change had ,had a working class EU sceptic patriot ward tagged onto a middle class constituency that only had small part working class areas and all of a sudden the balance of power in that constituency changed as it went form a Middle class liberal constituency members meeting to full of working class Labour brexiters the middle class who felt that constituency and it’s values belonged to them would suddenly be saying, or moral values that defined out principal to sit around discussing to tell each other how we were good people because we’re politically correct, but all of a sudden all these working class Small c trade union lefty brexiters have turned up and we can’t sit around saying we’re better people than those who don’t vote labour like those chavs on the council estate who didn’t like the fact that their grandparents have been moved out of the social housing down the coast and they moan they haven’t got baby sitters because they’re poor and common
    Fact that Labour members treat controlling a constituency and a clique more important than actually getting power and winning to actually change anyone else life for the better, break the rules to control cliques and use bullying tactics region doesn’t get to do anything about just to feel in a comfort zone of patting each other on the back about how they’re moral people ,yet if a constituency did have a change in it’s outlook (ie they lost all the councillors became moribund /ignored by region) so a new group of members such as ex libdem Remainers joined the party and voted themselves onto taking it over ,they maybe happy they can sit around discussing the revolution and can get threatening, but when they start posting on facebook the working class are thick N racist,if they haven’t got any councillors in that area it ruins it for nearby constituencies that have councillors that lose them to the tories as the tory tabloid press loves to pick up on Labour members posting stuff about the working class are gammons on social media.

    The fact cliques who hate working class members in the party are prepared to team up with fellow cliques in the party who hate the working class, is of amusement that blairites and corbynites just to both have middle class liberal guardian remain views will Gerrymander votes and sneer at nearby constituencies if they are more into working class Brexit politics, the whole of the south London Thames Estery has seen working class members ousted and the middle class liberals who dominate those areas don’t hold with the fact that many Afro Carribean labour members are socially conservator and don’t want labour to be a middle class liberal party

  13. Tafia says:

    And one that popped-in fright at months end, the fortnightly Opinium for the Observer. (it was weekly but as part of cost cutting they reduced it to fortnightly).

    Opinium, 26-28 Aug
    Con: 40%
    Lab: 40%
    LDem: 6%
    Grn: 3%
    Oth/DK/WNV: 11%

    A word of caution before you all get euphoric. Opinium regularly produce ‘outliers’. That neck and neck is not seen amongst the four polls within 7 days of that – quite the opposite, and Opinium put Labour on 40% before – 04-05 Jun. Again nobody else was even close to that.
    And part of the drill down is actually very uncomfortable for Labour – more and more people are getting annoyed that not enough is being done to stop Asylum serkers coming here and get rid of thr ones we’ve got, and more and mor people are getting annoyed that the government is asking/advising etc as opposed to forcing people to comply and punishing them if they don’t.

    But even so, on 40/40, because of the way Labour wastes votes by stacking in metropolitan areas, the Tories would be the largest party and Labour would only be able to form a government with the SNP and at least one other party out of Lib Dem, Plaid or DUP – and the price would be unacceptable, particularly the SNPs (remembering they will not vote in EVEL matters, nor will any other non-English party, leaving the Tories with a majority in EVEL – and being as health, education are EVEL, as is tax where Scotland are concerned, Labour would be unable to govern)

  14. John p Reid says:

    Thornberry said it was un affordable to keep up the amount we spend on welfare reforms in 2017 but that wasn’t mentioned when labour. Tried to portray itself as a left wing party
    After that election we should have used time to re Evaluate why we lost, we readily felt we’d won and didn’t at the time yet we let erode the truth to have the dream of a socialist society thats never gonna happen ,when we sorted this out years ago after getting rid of clause 4 ,and we backed down , tried to modernize to finally to remove clause 4 its romantic if you think you’re good then you can’t contradict you’re really bad, The important direction is the future of socialism, although a good not reforms transformed capitalism to come to terms with the mixed economy,
    And have-Endless meetings taking about send kids to university of proportional representation
    In 1975 Denis Healey and Tony Benn said they’d heard a bloke called Murphy had 18 kids in benefits and goes in ho,it has to majorca down the labour club they think he gets away with murder
    -And the yuppification of London saw Edmonton Turkish and black people move
    The community the alienation from owned labour and insisting on us having the fascist liberal authoritarian and the detach people from humanity
    Even if labour is for the Expansion in fiscal policy to susbstain less regulation cosumscribed to the global economy and a framework of level liberalism to question justice of order in society to have a power untility of freedom and rights to have to the extent on ethical to concern the characteristics for a society of virtue of fraternity common good

  15. John P Reid says:

    Tafia and yes, farage has had a good week over last night of proms,and those coming across the channel to get free hotels as refuges, which has put his party up by 1.5# which will disappear bqck to the tories,plus Th boundary changes in Scotland will take away 10 seats from the SNP

  16. John P Reid says:

    A very good discussion The Tories percentage has gone up from 30.2% in 1997 in the last 6 elections the libdems who were ex Tories could come back and leave It wasnt, the Brexit party got 2% they could all go tory The Tories could go up to 46% or more of they’re lower turnouts So the Tories become a dominating party are in power

  17. A.J. says:

    Neil Coyle hardly comes across as statesmanlike, now, does he?

    He’s in excellent company.

  18. John P Reid says:

    The year 2025
    Labour activist “Ed Miliband, Jeremy Corbyn and Keir starmer will be Remembered as the 3 greatest prime Ministers the country never had “

  19. Tafia says:

    Two highly topical things:-

    Black Lives Matter have successfully registered a political party at the Electoral Commission. They intend to contest every election at every level, campaigning as a BAME and urban working class party, saying the there is no difference between Labour , Lib Dems or the Tories if you are black or urban working class. I bet Starmer is so glad he ‘took the knee’. Will Dawn Butler and David Lammy stand on a podium with BLM ever again now that they are the enemy of Labour competing for Labour’s supposed ‘home turf’?

    Coventry Council (Labour), uses legal powers to prevent the Home Office placing anymore asylum seekers in Coventry ( https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/city-council-use-powers-stop-18848256 ), against the policies of the Labour Party. Hot on the heels of some Labour MPs in the north (there are a few left) asking the Home Office not to put anymore in their constituencies because they are creating problems.

  20. Anne says:

    Buildings are safer if they have solid foundations – these matter now for the success of the building. Kier Starmer has made a great start and is starting to build solid foundations. One area that needs to be worked on is Scotland. The SNP are on track for an independence vote probably next year and, if polls can be believed, they most likely will win. Johnson is disliked in Scotland, and The Tories are seen as comprising of little Englanders and poor career politicians. Richard Lennox (Scottish Labour leader) has not really had an impact – Jacki Baillie would probably do a better job. Most definitely the Union is in jeopardy. The Labour Party may be the only party that can save the Union. Kier should start to see this opportunity for Labour and develop a plan for this undertaking – before it is too late.

  21. John P reid says:

    the best of working class trade union communities who integrated for the greater good is often dismissed As A hovis bread view of Woman’s place in the kitchen,yet for Labour to get back working Class votes, Not that the Working class are A group with a homogenous opinion of there’s pride in Doing A days work, patriotism, Community and An Area based view on ones Routs are formed on A civic location of liking after our neighbours, the blue labour brexit not interested in positive discrimination /more blue collar working class to debate with those into the Denis Healy wing feeling the wing were to socially concerned with others that the traditional working class and romantic was so out of touch, it’s like the Neighbour embarrassed when those next door read the daily mirror as they read the Guardian, be they as smart, yet they’ve sneered at Mirror readers even though the Mirror encouraged them to vote for Labour more than the guardian, and at this rate labour will become a London, Liverpool ,Manchester Party Encourage no individual responsibility.
    Got to get away from the idea that labour is a source of good to deliver the working-class a better way of life through financial stability education and delivering them to utopia trade union barons using block boat to get their preferred choices on if I didn’t want to because they knew best that it wasn’t actually destroying labour ,telling the working class what to do by their ability to be able to control the party, are all views she feels we are needlessly disagreeing.
    , some acknowledgement has to be made all that happened was the old white working class was moved to the shires if they were socially Small C Christian and Brexiters, Which while making up the majority of the country, gave the impression- that they were not.
    after 2010, it was no coincidence that the momentum LGBT identity politics anti the working class took over.
    Fact many Working Class people had bought their Council homes voted Conservative as they thought they were middle class but based on their Job and Income statistics would consider them Working Class of Demographic changes , working class flight and class cleansing as Areas traditionally Labour Up North have fallen to the Conservatives.
    They way the middle class left is trying to get ex labour voters back is to say they’re thick and racist to get people to feel guilt they don’t vote labour using statistics to say a rise in hate crime means brexit is racist, Despite the middle class liberals holding the working class in Contempt for voting Brexit.
    Take A Shop steward or the councillor ,as the bloke down the road everyone knew who you’d meet in the pub to ask about case work, as the one to run the ship, as it wasn’t a prestige job and macho men wouldn’t lose face if revealed a woman ran the local party where the tories in the 60’s wouldn’t go as to far as
    as even if the rest of the public doesn’t share their values, then they’re either bad people IE tories ,or were thick to have voted for the tories and if we keep telling them they’re thick they’ll be won around,(as they were mistaken in not remembering how good the winter of discontent was)
    recently a labour man had said, the Working class take pride in having a job And the momentum lot not approving of this speak as if the working class are all feckless
    middle class of labour telling the working class what to do by their ability to be able Small c conservative
    the middle class liberals who dominate those areas don’t hold with the fact that man Afro Carribean labour members are socially conservative and don’t want labour to be a middle class liberal party Not that the Working class are A group with a homogenous opinion of there’s pride in Doing A days work, patriotism, Community and An Area based view on ones Routes are formed on A civic location of liking after our neighbours
    actually I agreed with the chavs book, not disagreeing with the criticism of the middle class comics sneering at a working class girl Vicky pollard, by comparing it to the dead earlier harry enfield chav after family the Slobs, but Wayne and a waynetta slob. On the Harry enfield show were in a loving relationship and were more paying tribute to a way of life that sneering at it
    take NHS work in class need to be laid rewrite history trying to behave bad trade unions a good public want left-wing public one trade unions
    when Theresa may gave her great speech about he left behinds on becoming PM outside downing street and the race equality audit ,it signalled to many working class that the tories were for them, she had a big increase in votes at that election, but labour got the protest vote
    To say you’ve literally bene raped by people who voted a different way to you implies that there’s nothing bad in ones own voting pattern that may have caused people who feel hard done by to have voted the opposite way
    Even if labour win a election it’ll be by default it’s like 1974 labour don’t get it may take a Ted Heath failing for thatcher to six seed it’s so out of touch with normal people now
    Yet all labour can do is Stick its your tongue out moaning the and today’s were wrong not to vote for us, to get the public to think they we’re wrong Hasn’t worked over the last 9 months
    even though those who still haven’t started to vote tory and may soon drink at the working means conservative clubs
    that they were much a the working class supported the EU of such the clique As the Islington
    similar Douglas Murrays madness of crowds had said gender identity was used to say what political views we could have, not saying that black people could vote tory was no different to telling a gay Labour brexiter they couldn’t do it, but a gay tory could have voted leave
    A white liberal saying that white priveledge exists doesn’t win favours with the majority of black people anyway
    as we can ignore minorities when they’re being racist or Anti-Semitic,let alone the facts there’s probably more middle class white racists than Working class ones
    Former northern Labour MP Ann Cryer(who’s first daughter in law is Asain) she was scorned when she mentioned the grooming gangs
    No one asked us when we went on Lesbian and Gay protests no one asked us about adding the letter T yet when this is mentioned it’s just dismissed as transphobia
    Jess Philips, when she can’t support Muslims if they don’t agree on trans views and she disagree with Muslims if they protest about it outside schools as then its the muslims who are the thick and common not the white girls who were ignored over the grooming gangs,when Philips talks about she’s brought up to feel labour were good, Posie parker like Roger Godsiff were on the Muslims side ,even though, In. No uncertain terms she
    Would point how bad the ,but we were the goodies they were the baddies
    And shut up For the sake of diversity said Naz shah -of the raped females, like they shouldn’t say it’ happened as its encouraging islamophobia revealing their rapes,if its to be A true religion they just scream victim to say their faith isn’t
    saying that the Tories tell her she shouldn’t talk about racism in being picked on, when it’s her actually let’s make the talking about racism all white middle-class
    The Tories being the victims moaning at her but it was actually the white girls raped by Muslims that had to shut up and they were the ones who should talk about a victim of being white
    like we’re on the Muslims side people at that meeting and Gay The trans view of incapable of seeing anything that will contradict it
    have discrimination against white people and the Jews
    The power struggle to rid labour of this sh@te may come may define Labour, l money from GLA and unions in London, means white working-class girls lose out Homogenous view Of what it is to be black labour member in Greenwich councillor as they all are liberals except they’re not
    take the NHS work, of the working class,the party needed to rewrite history trying to behave bad trade unions a good public want left-wing public one trade unions, We(the left) went round because they were wrong to not realise that trade union should intimidate people don’t do it saying how they should follow the bosses out on strikes as union bosses lost interest in their members trying to score points by saying we should be against a tory government all the time, of A Romantic view corbyn was the only One on the left who was against Aparthied or section 28 when the whole labour movement was And there’s only 2 wings if labour Corbyn and Blairite
    and yes selling council homes was a way thatcher though it made Working Class people feel they’re Middle Class and should vote Tory
    yet labour has Reached the conclusion there’s nothing else to know I know this verification seem incapable of seeing anything of contradicting it as the liberals have positive discrimination and its no good if the public doesn’t realise that we need to have discrimination as had the 1974
    Wilson governments been better it would never have seen Thatcherism as that govnermment caused Thatcherism to happen

  22. A.J. says:

    I’ve been watching some of the interviews with David Starkey since the storm in a teacup over what he did or didn’t say or mean about the BLM twats. I’ve never much cared for him to be honest and was trying to decide who he reminded me of. Then it dawned: Ed Miliband at his most preachy – all that ‘and you know what’ horseshit.
    I don’t have an awful lot of time for little Owen Jones either, but he produced a very good article in the Graun around the time the ‘Labour chose the wrong brother’ shtick was doing the rounds. And what is Darren Grimes anyway other than some rightish alter ego of Jones? Do we really need these people?

  23. A.J. says:

    A timely reminder has just come through my letter-box about the current state of Labour: a local councillor (who will remained un-named) temporarily suspended by the local party on the eve of the May 2019 election for making anti-Jewish remarks – remember that? A completely useless member of his union, thick as pigshit, now apparently rehabiliated with his mate as Mayor for 2020. It’s a bit difficult round here, as the local Tories are complete halfwits (even the local MP knows they’re useless), but the Labour lot remain 100 per cent Momentum.

  24. A.J. says:

    For those of you who read your history, on occasion some Labour figures could become more Tory than the Tories: Bevan, for example, around the time of Suez.

    Now here’s an idea. How about a senior Labour figure declaring themselves in favour – under certain circumstances – of capital punishment? Chuter Ede had no problem with it during the Attlee period. Perhaps it’s time to reject the stupidities of Sidney Silverman and his type. Protect the working classes against those who would seek to deprive them of life. Too rich for your blood?

    Focus upon the ethnic minorities in the UK whose ancestors came from the Empire at the expense of those from the EU. Create a big black middle class.

    Get schools to focus once again on science and technology so that we can recreate and sustain a solid manufacturing base and regain export markets.

    Abolish homosexual marriage, restrict abortion.

    Build up our armed forces to the point where they could at least fight a war like the Falklands if nothing more seriious. Just how many servicemen come from the old ‘Red Wall’ areas?

    Stop knocking the Monarchy.

    Decide a sensible policy on council housing.

    Get a grip on the NHS.

    Take a long hard look at policing in the UK.

    A few ideas to begin with. There are others, such as scrapping the absurd Supreme Court, seriously reforming the House Of Lords, attempting to get a few MPs into the Commons who are actually up to the job.

  25. A.J. says:

    The best that Starmer can hope for is that the voters doze off and fail to notice he’s there. Of course, when they wake up again they can all bog themselves laughing at Angela Rayner. Boris Johnson seems already to be stupified, but Patel may not be – so watch out. She may not be quite as ‘woke’ as some of her colleagues.

  26. A.J. says:

    I’m not convinced nowadays that some areas of re-nationalisation ought not to be considered. The Thatcherite reforms may have been suited to the 1980s but some have outlived their usefulness. I’m not sure that we would want to reinstitute British Rail, but something has certainly gone wrong there. Royal Mail is a disgrace. The management cannot blame Covid. Deliveries are all over the place and losses endemic. They need to sort themselves out. Does anyone remember their idiotic boss who, during Blair’s time, was given a slot by the BBC to talk, not about improving their service, but racism. Maybe Trevor Phillips should have been asked by the BBC to discuss the price of stamps.
    There are glorious opportunities for Labour. But they won’t have the nerve to take them. How far back does the blame go? Probably to Gaitskell.

  27. A.J. says:

    Something Starkey said that did make sense: the defeat of 2019 was far more serious than that of 1935 because then the working class vote held up.

  28. Tafia says:

    A.J – I’m not convinced nowadays that some areas of re-nationalisation ought not to be considered.

    If the government does not get the right to ‘tweak’ international treaties and laws through Parliament, then you can forget EVER being able to nationalise anything.

    If any Labour person believes in re-nationalisation – even of just key assets such as rail, gas, electric etc, then it has to support the government’s Bill.

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